Spending available 2018 budget

(Peter Stein) #21

Thank you Bastian for the response - I was not expecting one and more importantly not looking to influence any decisions you make with the path of Neos - really my focus was to just put on record that I loved the idea of Neos, and would have been one of your disciples till my dying days. The reason I was so passionate about your success (and just a little about me being in love with the interface - read intuitive) is the early experiences I had in trying to grapple with what happened while I was asleep (not doing anything to do with web pages for over 10 years) - The rise of the WP ecosystem, and trying to understand CMS systems in general - WP is and probably always will be a mess for a newbie to get their heads around. Having an all in one solution - Neos - well I really wanted it to work for me and others that I could influence. My present situation is using and learning WP and have purchased plugins (Brizy and Oxygen2) to get as close to what I guessed Neos is (I am only guessing as I mentioned from the promise offered by the promotional videos) I laughed when I read Max-Milan’s comment

Yes Wordpress and a plugin or many is a few minute exercise and works every time with every host - it just works (and a degree in IT is not required) - Listing my experiences is not possible as I never got remotely close to an install - each host I contacted (as I alluded to earlier) was extremely evasive and avoided me as a pain in the “A…E” customer. This is what you would need to address so at least ordinary users like me could make a start. Reading the requirements and steps to install a working Neos installation and the reported issues with compatibilities and versions gave me a migraine…

I am Old - and from the very beginnings of computer systems and software to perform tasks I had a simple benchmark or requirement - it had to be more efficient than doing it the old way. And from my understanding, I believe that using WP with all its nutty protocols and quirks is more usable than Neos simply because it is just not accessible - There is an interesting organisation called W3.org that specifies standards for WEB content and accessibility - I noted that creators of websites are required in some cases to comply with guidelines listed on their compliance standards, yet if I was to apply their standards to Neos - it would not rate at all - Yes I know we as developers and creators should be smarter than the average web user - but it would sure help if we could get the tools to work !
I still want very much for Neos to suddenly become usable and easily accessible - I want the greatest success for you all. But my comments on difficulties with Neos does not exist - I can’t get off the starting blocks !

(Alexander Berl) #22

Going to chip in here and even though I’m a hardcore Dev and Feature-Enthusiast, I have to second what @mstoyanov and @ozfossil are saying. There is a noticeable entry-barrier currently with Neos. Bigger than it should be and than it probably needs to be. And the first steps to improve this, are exactly that: improve the “installability” of Neos and improve documentation. Therefore I would also vote for spending budget on those topics.

(Soren Malling) #23

I will suggest that all these great ideas are turned in to separate topics in the #the-neos-project:finances-fundraising category so they can be discussed without all the other good ideas “being lost”.

One example will be how @christianm crated this topic https://discuss.neos.io/t/funded-release-work/

Looking forward to read more great ideas and discussion

(Christoph Köppel) #24

Yes, may be that … preview a budget to find out retrospectively

  • what Neos finally is (or has already become …)

could make some sense.

Knowing it, would surely facilitate documentation, communication, marketing and developer aspects …
‘Documentation’ is a complementary and complex task, as well described here

  • https://www.divio.com/blog/documentation/

  • ask probably ‘Roland Schütz’ how much effort it took to him to write a ‘Customer documentation’ … (not only time)

  • ask ‘Robert Lemke’ how to elaborate an exhaustive Doc like the ‘FlowFramework DefinitiveGuide

Huge efforts have been done and sometimes it’s just the problem, that people (developers) can’t find the ‘right thread’ to the ‘masterpieces’ of this rather extensive Software ecosystem …
Thanks to inspiration by ‘Stefan Bruggmann’ on the last ‘Neos meetup’ in Zürich, the following 2 examples show probably the problem of ‘complexity and awareness’ of the ‘Neos Tooling’

Topic of these 2 “Cheat-Sheets” above (… should have produced more, but I lacked of spirit this year … unfortunately)

  • How to open the doors for developers ‘not involved’ in the project …

Thanks for reading.

Funding request: Documentation
(Soren Malling) #25

To clear up the many topics I created Budget 2018 spending suggestion: PSR-7 & PSR-15 implementation which is open for discussion

(Sebastian Kurfuerst) #26


as outlined in Funding Request: Event Sourced Content Repository - First Release, we would like to spend some money on working on the event sourced CR.

All the best,

(Tobias Gruber) #27

hey everyone, I just created a Konsensing for the Neos Team Members to vote on the suggested topics. The voting is open until 28th Sept and we will share the results here afterwards.

Thank you very much for the discussion and suggestions!

(Sebastian Kurfuerst) #28

Hey everybody,

below is the result of the Team Voting and a short suggestion how we’ll continue from here.

Results of the team voting

Next Steps

I’ve discussed the following steps with @christianm, as Tobias is still on holidays.

We suggest to accept the first three proposals as-is:

  • 12k€ Documentation work
  • 4k€ Release Neos 4.2
  • 16k€ 1st phase of Event Sourced Content Repository

Total so far: 32k€.

The problem with the 4th result Marketing is, that we don’t have a clear budget proposal or responsibility yet; so we’ll ask if somebody will step up with a good proposal here.

Regarding 5th result (retrospective release budget), I asked Christian whether his intention was to ask for funding for the last release, which he declined. So effectively we could spend the money here, but we could spend it otherwise as well.

We are yet undecided how to spend the remaining 8k€ in our account - and we’ll check if this already includes the subscriptions which are due in Q4 2018. So the 8k€ could still increase.

Hope that’s fine for you :slight_smile: - Christian and myself propose the stuff I’ve just written; just to ensure we can proceed quickly and actually can get some things done at end of this year.

All the best,
PS: Personally, I think it is important to have some money still available for the Salzburg sprint; to ensure people with higher travel costs can afford to be there (e.g. @dimaip and others)

Funding request: Documentation
Funding Request: Event Sourced Content Repository - First Release
Funded release work
(Bastian Heist) #29

Hey, sounds very good! :slight_smile: Jsut one note: My original Docs funding request was for 12k€, Tobias accidentally put 10k in the Konsensierung, and it could not be changed afterwards (he added a comment documenting that). I would like to plan with the original 12k if noone objects :wink:

(Sebastian Kurfuerst) #30

Hey Bastian,

fine, I updated my post accordingly!

All the best, Sebastian

(Soren Malling) #31

Hi @sebastian

Super cool, I wasn’t aware of a voting going on and moving this topic forward - so super cool!

A question regarding my original post about psr-7+15 : I can see that you came up with a estimate and that 1 disadvantage has been marked on that topic. Is it possible that you can share the estimation (i believe you have a [number of hours] * [hourly rate]) in hours? And share what the disadvantage is? It will be super usefull for the ongoing work :slight_smile:

(Christian Müller) #32

Disadvantage was mine, basically saying what I said here as well. Progress we need to make is mostly for next major IMHO, which will be too early this year and overall I personally think this can happen as voluntary work.

(Christian Müller) #33

I would like to clarify that I personally made the post about release funding to make sure we get this settled and secured for the future. That said the last release went far from optimal and we from Flownative spent a good amount of unplanned time to get it out which was not how it should have been as we specifically wanted to stay out of this one. That said we would be happy to get some of this after all. So I didn’t expect a retrospective funding for it but after discussing with Karsten, it would be greatly appreciated after all.

(Sebastian Kurfuerst) #34

Hey @christianm,

thanks for clarifying; would be also fine for me.

All the best, Sebastian