Thank you Bastian for the response - I was not expecting one and more importantly not looking to influence any decisions you make with the path of Neos - really my focus was to just put on record that I loved the idea of Neos, and would have been one of your disciples till my dying days. The reason I was so passionate about your success (and just a little about me being in love with the interface - read intuitive) is the early experiences I had in trying to grapple with what happened while I was asleep (not doing anything to do with web pages for over 10 years) - The rise of the WP ecosystem, and trying to understand CMS systems in general - WP is and probably always will be a mess for a newbie to get their heads around. Having an all in one solution - Neos - well I really wanted it to work for me and others that I could influence. My present situation is using and learning WP and have purchased plugins (Brizy and Oxygen2) to get as close to what I guessed Neos is (I am only guessing as I mentioned from the promise offered by the promotional videos) I laughed when I read Max-Milan’s comment
Yes Wordpress and a plugin or many is a few minute exercise and works every time with every host - it just works (and a degree in IT is not required) - Listing my experiences is not possible as I never got remotely close to an install - each host I contacted (as I alluded to earlier) was extremely evasive and avoided me as a pain in the “A…E” customer. This is what you would need to address so at least ordinary users like me could make a start. Reading the requirements and steps to install a working Neos installation and the reported issues with compatibilities and versions gave me a migraine…
I am Old - and from the very beginnings of computer systems and software to perform tasks I had a simple benchmark or requirement - it had to be more efficient than doing it the old way. And from my understanding, I believe that using WP with all its nutty protocols and quirks is more usable than Neos simply because it is just not accessible - There is an interesting organisation called W3.org that specifies standards for WEB content and accessibility - I noted that creators of websites are required in some cases to comply with guidelines listed on their compliance standards, yet if I was to apply their standards to Neos - it would not rate at all - Yes I know we as developers and creators should be smarter than the average web user - but it would sure help if we could get the tools to work !
I still want very much for Neos to suddenly become usable and easily accessible - I want the greatest success for you all. But my comments on difficulties with Neos does not exist - I can’t get off the starting blocks !
Going to chip in here and even though I’m a hardcore Dev and Feature-Enthusiast, I have to second what @mstoyanov and @ozfossil are saying. There is a noticeable entry-barrier currently with Neos. Bigger than it should be and than it probably needs to be. And the first steps to improve this, are exactly that: improve the “installability” of Neos and improve documentation. Therefore I would also vote for spending budget on those topics.
I will suggest that all these great ideas are turned in to separate topics in the #the-neos-project:finances-fundraising category so they can be discussed without all the other good ideas “being lost”.
Yes, may be that … preview a budget to find out retrospectively
what Neos finally is (or has already become …)
could make some sense.
Knowing it, would surely facilitate documentation, communication, marketing and developer aspects …
‘Documentation’ is a complementary and complex task, as well described here
ask probably ‘Roland Schütz’ how much effort it took to him to write a ‘Customer documentation’ … (not only time)
ask ‘Robert Lemke’ how to elaborate an exhaustive Doc like the ‘FlowFramework DefinitiveGuide’
Huge efforts have been done and sometimes it’s just the problem, that people (developers) can’t find the ‘right thread’ to the ‘masterpieces’ of this rather extensive Software ecosystem …
Thanks to inspiration by ‘Stefan Bruggmann’ on the last ‘Neos meetup’ in Zürich, the following 2 examples show probably the problem of ‘complexity and awareness’ of the ‘Neos Tooling’
hey everyone, I just created a Konsensing for the Neos Team Members to vote on the suggested topics. The voting is open until 28th Sept and we will share the results here afterwards.
Thank you very much for the discussion and suggestions!
I’ve discussed the following steps with @christianm, as Tobias is still on holidays.
We suggest to accept the first three proposals as-is:
12k€ Documentation work
4k€ Release Neos 4.2
16k€ 1st phase of Event Sourced Content Repository
Total so far: 32k€.
The problem with the 4th result Marketing is, that we don’t have a clear budget proposal or responsibility yet; so we’ll ask if somebody will step up with a good proposal here.
Regarding 5th result (retrospective release budget), I asked Christian whether his intention was to ask for funding for the last release, which he declined. So effectively we could spend the money here, but we could spend it otherwise as well.
We are yet undecided how to spend the remaining 8k€ in our account - and we’ll check if this already includes the subscriptions which are due in Q4 2018. So the 8k€ could still increase.
Hope that’s fine for you - Christian and myself propose the stuff I’ve just written; just to ensure we can proceed quickly and actually can get some things done at end of this year.
All the best,
Sebastian
PS: Personally, I think it is important to have some money still available for the Salzburg sprint; to ensure people with higher travel costs can afford to be there (e.g. @dimaip and others)
Hey, sounds very good! Jsut one note: My original Docs funding request was for 12k€, Tobias accidentally put 10k in the Konsensierung, and it could not be changed afterwards (he added a comment documenting that). I would like to plan with the original 12k if noone objects
Super cool, I wasn’t aware of a voting going on and moving this topic forward - so super cool!
A question regarding my original post about psr-7+15 : I can see that you came up with a estimate and that 1 disadvantage has been marked on that topic. Is it possible that you can share the estimation (i believe you have a [number of hours] * [hourly rate]) in hours? And share what the disadvantage is? It will be super usefull for the ongoing work
Disadvantage was mine, basically saying what I said here as well. Progress we need to make is mostly for next major IMHO, which will be too early this year and overall I personally think this can happen as voluntary work.
I would like to clarify that I personally made the post about release funding to make sure we get this settled and secured for the future. That said the last release went far from optimal and we from Flownative spent a good amount of unplanned time to get it out which was not how it should have been as we specifically wanted to stay out of this one. That said we would be happy to get some of this after all. So I didn’t expect a retrospective funding for it but after discussing with Karsten, it would be greatly appreciated after all.
hey Neos teams and especially budget owners!
As I am on holiday for the next 4 weeks (yay ), I asked our team member @marika to do the administrative work of paying your invoices for the 2018 budgets.
Reminder: The budget owners are responsible to control their budget. Marika and I only make sure, that we do not overspend overall. So please remember the guildelines for Neos budgets (Guideline: How to apply for a budget from the Neos Project (draft)) - you, the budget owner, review and approve invoices which we (Sandstorm) will then pay. So for the future please remember that all invoices for Neos budgets should be sent to the budget owner, who then forwards approved invoices to Sandstorm (rechnung@sandstorm.de).
Marika and I are currently looking at the following budgets and will get in touch with the budget owners to confirm payment of invoices:
• Documentation Sprint: @bastianheist
• Release 4.2/5.2: @jonnitto
• Event Sourced CR Rewrite: @sebastian
• TypeScript Neos UI: @dimaip
No more invoices received so far:
• Neos Sprint Salzburg: @tobias
Already paid for 2018:
• Trademark topics: @robert
If you have invoices that still need to count towards our 2018 budget, make sure to give them a 2018 invoice number, a 2018 issue date (e.g. 31st Dec 2018) and a 2018 delivery timeframe.
Please get in touch with @marika if you have questions regarding the payment of invoices.
Talk to you in 4 weeks
PS: from the current overview that Marika and I have (from the invoices we received so far), we did not fully spend our available budget in 2018. I currently estimate that we have something in the 10-15 k€ range still available. (We did not yet receive the big invoices from Release 4.2 and only 2 invoices for the event sourced CR, so there could still be something there).
from Slack #teams
Hi Neos teams and budget owners!
The last few days some of you were busy bees and sent me invoices for the 2018 budget. Thanks for that! So I did run the numbers and this is how the budget 2018 looks like so far:
With that in mind we still have around 3K€ in our piggy bank. Yesterday I thought it was more, but I forgot to deduct the VAT. So I think we’ve done a good job…
- Christian and myself propose the stuff I’ve just written; just to ensure we can proceed quickly and actually can get some things done at end of this year.
Jsut one note: My original Docs funding request was for 12k€, Tobias accidentally put 10k in the Konsensierung, and it could not be changed afterwards (he added a comment documenting that). I would like to plan with the original 12k if noone objects 
), I asked our team member 
