I don’t know enough about those platforms to know what it will take from me (time, administration, costs etc) to setup stuff like that 
If anyone would like to sponsor the concrete work/proposals, get in touch with me. I can do invoices 
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Just a (very late) thought: will we have enough funds to shut down the CIC and start the e.V.?
And for next year (when the e.V. is in place) we need to save some funds in order to pay out Flownative’s costs regarding the trademark. But we are flexible there regarding the timing.
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I have a rather uninspired question…
What exactly does “2 releases at 4k each” mean now? The year is over and there won’t be another major release this year. The minor in December needs not that much work, but the 5.0/6.0 pair was quite time-consuming.
I do not yet know about @daniellienert, but on my timesheet alone I have 47 hours for that major release… I wonder how to handle that.
On my timesheet I have another 51,4 hours for the release (excluding 9 hours, to adjust packges in the Neos / Flowpack namespace ). Most time consuming were the adjustments for the PSR-7 change as they were often not straight-forward.
@robert can you give a rough number how much costs we have so far for the trademark topic? I would like to avoid 5 digit surprises 
Regarding your other question: I don’t see a problem regarding funds to shut down the CIC or start the e.V., as we have a continuous income with the funding platform. Both should be doable budget wise.
@kdambekalns and @daniellienert my current state of knowledge regarding release funding is:
we budget 4.000€ per release (this number was provided in this thread: Funded release work).
I can see from your actual hours that this budget does not cover your efforts for this major release. I see the following options:
- you agree to share the budget of 4.000€ between the two of you
- you request additional budget from the next minor release (“just” a shift in budgets)
- you request additional budget to cover more of your actual hours (if approved by the team -> possibly squeezed out this year, otherwise next year)
Up to you which way you want to take it 
(as a personal note: I have no strong emotions here. If you feel that your work would be undervalued with the 4k€ budget, I am totally fine if you ask for more compensation. imho there are no right/wrong solutions here. Both of you put in a lot of effort to make this release happen and imho it would be a shame if that left both of you unhappy.)
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4.000€ would mean that every release gets the same budget, but my last understanding was that a major release was way more effort and hence should get more budget.
So a major would come at an expense of
40 + 40/3 ~ 54hours and each minor at16 + 40/3 ~ 30hours.
With this rough approximation that would mean something along a split of 50:25:25 for major:minor:minor, so with a 12.000€ yearly budget, 6.000€ for the major release.
Would be okay for me, majors are most important releases probably with lots of thought and work needed to put into backward compatibility vs. breakiness decisions, more work to check all is working out, release documentation, etc.
And then there’s ofc always the option to put up a request for additional budget as Tobias stated. And I fully second his “personal note”!
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I also think that major releases need a bigger budget. I am not opinionated how exactly the formula works but the suggestion of @aberl sounds reasonable.
This will lead to not using the full budget in years without a major release but this is imho ok.
Hey everybody,
just wanted to express here as well that it’s totally fine for me if the release budget should to be higher, even if that would mean that the ES CR would get less than the initially proposed 15k this year.
I totally second what @tobias wrote beforehand
All the best,
Sebastian
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So far we have costs of roughly 3000€ for fees and lawyer. There is more, since some more things were paid, but we are well below 5000€, I am sure.
Then there a budget of 2400€ for the “Trademark Management / System”, of which about 250€ have been “worked off” so far, but since that’s a budget, it is planned in and will not be a surprise, I assume.
@tobias as a rough number, we have, so far, paid 8286,67 € (net) to lawyers and the EUIPO. I guess that it’ll be roughly 10.000 € by end of November, because there’s some further action happening now. I currently don’t plan to invoice my time I spend with the matter.
@kdambekalns I think you found some outdated table in our docs folder. There was at least one invoice not added to the list which we paid though.
Huh, well. I checked our time/expense tracking… Why is everything so fragmented in these times… sigh Sorry for the confusion.
thanks for the numbers @robert we should discuss at the sprint how we plan to reimburse that money. The sum almost makes up half of our budget for next year…
Ok, to move forward with this, here is a first poll, to get at least one of the confusion points out of the way.
What budget do we assign to release types?
-
- 4k per release
-
- 3k per minor, 5k per major release
0 voters
Are 3k/5k enough? Just by my feeling @kdambekalns and @daniellienert spend quite a lot time for the release and so it feels not enough to cover the expenses?
Or is the additional time kind of a donation then
Ok, finally going forward. Thanks for the votes. That leaves us with 5k for the Neos 5.0 release. As written earlier @daniellienert and me in total spent 91.4 hours on the release. We discussed internally a bit, and while Daniel and I are fine with some stripping down of the hours, at least we at Flownative came to the conclusion, that we would not like to go down with the hourly rate “to make it work”, since:
- we agreed on 100€/h in the past
- other parts of the project (e.g. ES CR) are using that rate as well
- it was what we calculated with along the way
Now, @daniellienert and I agreed on splitting “whatever we get” in half, neglecting the few hours our investment differs. That leaves us with the ast question: Can we get some more budget for this?
Who’d be willing to share some of the year’s remaining money? If we get 4k extra, everything would be settled basically, with an extra 2k we’d be better off already. What do you think would be fair?
- no extra budget
- 2k extra budget
- 4k extra budget
- fine with whatever
0 voters
To give some context to my vote “4k extra budget”: imho it is very important that we don’t frustrate ourselves or even burn ourselves out with releases. If we ended up with at situation where no one wants to do releases any more, all the cool new features we develop won’t make it to our users.
Thus it is a priority for me personally, to make sure that @daniellienert and @kdambekalns walk away from the release with good feelings and the will to take on responsibility again in the future.
The two of you did a great job with the release, thank you!
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I’m all for spend the 4k for important work that was already done, as long as there is room in the budget.
What I’d like on top is: can we open up some additional budget in some form that is specifically targeted at “improve the process”? I’m thinking in terms of “there’s 1k (or w/e) extra budget available per release/per quarter for efforts that improve our release process” - make it easier, faster, more reliable, etc. and which will only be spent if time for the process is spent. If not, that budget is opened again for some other things. Some kind of financial incentive to not just do the work that is required to get the current release finished/out - which is awesome in itself -, but to improve the process for the next. Optimally, the goal should be that our budget we planned (3k/5k) is always enough to cover the work for 95% of our releases or sth. like that.
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